--- title: "Unleashed E46: Bob Sutton – Work Is Overrated" description: Bob Sutton argues that the ability for an organization to scale has everything to do with behaviors, culture and leadership. image: https://blog.unleashresults.com/hubfs/Blog%20Images/Business%20Handshake.png --- [![](https://blog.unleashresults.com/hubfs/results-white.png) ![](https://blog.unleashresults.com/hubfs/Results_logo_transparent-retinap.png)](https://unleashresults.com/) - Calgary [1-403-234-0999](tel:+14032340999) - Edmonton [1-780-784-1047](tel:+17807841047) - Vancouver [1-236-521-1954](tel:+12365211954) - [About](https://unleashresults.com/about/) - [Team](https://unleashresults.com/about/#team) - [Community Involvement](https://unleashresults.com/community-involvement/) - [Join the Team](https://unleashresults.com/careers/) - [Book Jeff Tetz to Speak](https://unleashresults.com/jefftetz/) - [Results Execution System (RES)](https://unleashresults.com/services/) - [Execution Disciplines Program](https://unleashresults.com/services/execution-disciplines-program/) - [Building Leaders Programs](https://unleashresults.com/services/building-leaders-program/) - [Executive Coaching](https://unleashresults.com/services/executive-coaching/) - [Business Consulting](https://unleashresults.com/services/business-consulting/) - [Success Stories](https://unleashresults.com/success-stories/) - [Events](https://unleashresults.com/events/) - [Leadership and Growth](https://unleashresults.com/events/) - [Business Execution Summit](https://unleashresults.com/bex/) - [Connex Leadership Summit](https://unleashresults.com/connex/) - [Partner with Us](https://unleashresults.com/partnership/) - [Execution Insights](http://www.unleashresults.com/blog/) - [Resources](https://unleashresults.com/resources/) - [Unleashed Podcast](https://unleashresults.com/unleashed-series/) - Guides - [Succession Planning Resources](https://blog.unleashresults.com/tag/succession-planning) - [Performance Management Resources](https://blog.unleashresults.com/tag/performance-management) - [Change Management Resources](https://blog.unleashresults.com/tag/change-management) - [Bookstore](https://unleashresults.com/bookstore/) - [Contact](https://unleashresults.com/contact/) - [About](https://unleashresults.com/about/) - [Team](https://unleashresults.com/about/#team) - [Community Involvement](https://unleashresults.com/community-involvement/) - [Join the Team](https://unleashresults.com/careers/) - [Book Jeff Tetz to Speak](https://unleashresults.com/jefftetz/) - [Results Execution System (RES)](https://unleashresults.com/services/) - [Execution Disciplines Program](https://unleashresults.com/services/execution-disciplines-program/) - [Building Leaders Programs](https://unleashresults.com/services/building-leaders-program/) - [Executive Coaching](https://unleashresults.com/services/executive-coaching/) - [Business Consulting](https://unleashresults.com/services/business-consulting/) - [Success Stories](https://unleashresults.com/success-stories/) - [Events](https://unleashresults.com/events/) - [Leadership and Growth](https://unleashresults.com/events/) - [Business Execution Summit](https://unleashresults.com/bex/) - [Connex Leadership Summit](https://unleashresults.com/connex/) - [Partner with Us](https://unleashresults.com/partnership/) - [Execution Insights](http://www.unleashresults.com/blog/) - [Resources](https://unleashresults.com/resources/) - [Unleashed Podcast](https://unleashresults.com/unleashed-series/) - Guides - [Succession Planning Resources](https://blog.unleashresults.com/tag/succession-planning) - [Performance Management Resources](https://blog.unleashresults.com/tag/performance-management) - [Change Management Resources](https://blog.unleashresults.com/tag/change-management) - [Bookstore](https://unleashresults.com/bookstore/) - [Contact](https://unleashresults.com/contact/) ![featured image](https://blog.unleashresults.com/hubfs/Blog%20Images/Business%20Handshake.png) - [Business Planning & Strategy](https://blog.unleashresults.com/tag/business-planning-strategy) - [Unleashed](https://blog.unleashresults.com/tag/unleashed) - [Culture](https://blog.unleashresults.com/tag/culture) # Unleashed E46: Bob Sutton – Work Is Overrated - By Tim O'Connor - April, 1 2022 - [Home](https://blog.unleashresults.com/) - [Blog](https://blog.unleashresults.com) - Unleashed E46: Bob Sutton – Work Is Overrated Table of Contents Bob Sutton argues that the ability for an organization to scale has everything to do with behaviors, culture and leadership.  ## Actions You Can Take Right Now 1. Leaders often think that no one listens to them, but what is more important than words is **how they behave**. Their actions speak louder than their words.  2. Use **customer journey mapping** to stay connected to what customers experience. Use it to **see more clearly where customers are experiencing positive and negative interaction points**. It’s all about the emotions.  3. To combat the complexity that comes with growth, **leaders need to keep the messages simple and repeat them a lot**.  Video Player           00:00  00:00 00:31 Use Up/Down Arrow keys to increase or decrease volume.       ***View or listen to this and other past episodes [here.](https://unleashresults.com/unleashed-series/)*** ## Episode Highlights and Excerpts - Leaders often think that no one listens to them, but what is more important than their words is how they behave. **The message is either magnified or distorted through the messenger.**  - [Psychological safety](https://blog.unleashresults.com/unleashed-season-3-episode-8-psychological-safety-and-high-performance) is the most important topic in organizational psychology in the past several decades. Without it, leaders don’t hear the truth. This is what got companies like Boeing in trouble.  - You can’t just mandate psychological safety. It takes time and **is something that needs to be worked on every day**.  - Not all friction is bad. **Some things are supposed to be hard** and time consuming. It’s important to remove bad friction and keep the good friction.  - All sorts of research points to the fact that people see assholes around them in the workplace, but rarely see asshole behaviors in themselves. **Start by looking in the mirror.**  - **Customer journey mapping** is a key tool for understanding the emotional path customers take and looking for ways to remove friction and bad emotional responses.  - As companies grow, complexity increases, and the more leaders need to **stick to repeating simple messages** over and over again. This is done in places like Microsoft (we are learn-it-alls, not know-it-alls).  Superstars are people who get ahead by building up the people around them, not those who step on others to get there.  ## **Take Your Business to the Next Level**  At Results we care about your success, we understand how overwhelming it can feel to run a business, and we’re here to help. 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Follow Jeff ([Twitter](https://x.com/JeffTetz); [LinkedIn](https://www.linkedin.com/in/jefftetz/); [Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/jeffwtetz/)) for more great leadership insights. ## Access the Full Episode [Your Way](https://www.unleashresults.com/unleashed-series) Click the logo below to subscribe to your favorite platform and never miss another episode recording. Remember to subscribe to your favorite channel and be the first to know when new conversations are available. [![Results YouTube](https://blog.unleashresults.com/hs-fs/hubfs/Imported_Blog_Media/1-300x100-4.png?width=113&name=1-300x100-4.png)](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu-cq4YysIvoMIsDGvPdaOQ)[![Results Spotify](https://blog.unleashresults.com/hs-fs/hubfs/Imported_Blog_Media/4-300x100-4.png?width=105&name=4-300x100-4.png)](https://open.spotify.com/show/3JRXTGIr3d3sY4hPqlZo1T)[![Results Apple Podcasts](https://blog.unleashresults.com/hs-fs/hubfs/Imported_Blog_Media/2-300x100-4.png?width=98&name=2-300x100-4.png)](https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/unleashed-conversations-to-elevate-your-business/id1529641260)[![stitcher-logo-vector](https://blog.unleashresults.com/hs-fs/hubfs/social-suggested-images/stitcher-logo-vector.png?width=68&height=38&name=stitcher-logo-vector.png)](https://www.stitcher.com/show/unleashed-conversations-to-elevate-your-business)[![podbean](https://blog.unleashresults.com/hs-fs/hubfs/Imported_Blog_Media/3-300x100-4.png?width=108&name=3-300x100-4.png)](https://unleashresults.podbean.com/) ## Bob Sutton Robert I. Sutton is an organizational psychologist and Professor of Management Science and Engineering  at Stanford University.  He studies leadership, innovation, organizational change, and workplace dynamics.  His focus over the past decade has been on scaling and how to grow organizations, spread good things (and remove bad things) in teams, and enhance performance, innovation, and well-being given the distinct challenges in big organizations.  Sutton received his Ph.D. in Organizational Psychology from The University of Michigan and has served on the Stanford faculty since 1983.  Sutton’s research and opinions are often quoted in The New York Times, The Times (of London), The Atlantic, Financial Times, Esquire, Fortune, Wall Street Journal, The Boston Globe, Wired, Vanity Fair, and Washington Post. Sutton has been a guest on numerous radio and television shows, including ABC, Bloomberg, BBC, CNBC, Fox, NBC Today Show, PBS, NPR, Marketplace, CNN.   ## Want More Great Content? If you are interested in the full conversation, or past Unleashed guests, you can find all the Unleashed content – blogs, video, podcasts – on our website [here](https://unleashresults.com/unleashed-series/).  Each episode of Unleashed is hosted by Results’ CEO Jeff Tetz who spends most of his life deeply caring for others, exploring what makes high performers tick, and helping people unleash their full potential. You’ll find Jeff [here](https://twitter.com/JeffTetz) on Twitter.  ![Tim](https://blog.unleashresults.com/hs-fs/hubfs/Blog%20Images/Tim.jpg?width=80&name=Tim.jpg) ### [Tim O’Connor](https://unleashresults.com/author/timoconnor/) - Share this article - - - [Sign Up Now for Upcoming Events](https://resources.unleashresults.com/leadership-development-events) ##### Sign Up For Our Newsletter - [Popular](https://blog.unleashresults.com/unleashed-e46-bob-sutton-work-is-overrated#sidebar-popular-posts) - [Recent](https://blog.unleashresults.com/unleashed-e46-bob-sutton-work-is-overrated#sidebar-recent-posts) [Why Does Change Management Fail (And What To Do About It) July, 20 2026](https://blog.unleashresults.com/why-change-management-fails) [The Results’ Four Cs of Extraordinary Teams Framework June, 21 2026](https://blog.unleashresults.com/the-results-four-cs-of-extraordinary-teams) [Climbing the Accountability Ladder May, 15 2026](https://blog.unleashresults.com/climbing-the-accountability-ladder) [How Emotionally Strong Leaders Handle Difficult People April, 20 2026](https://blog.unleashresults.com/how-emotionally-strong-leaders-handle-difficult-people-results) [Business Execution Summit 2026 Brings Leaders to Kananaskis March, 12 2026](https://blog.unleashresults.com/business-execution-summit-2026) [Climbing the Accountability Ladder May, 15 2026](https://blog.unleashresults.com/climbing-the-accountability-ladder) [The Results’ Four Cs of Extraordinary Teams Framework June, 21 2026](https://blog.unleashresults.com/the-results-four-cs-of-extraordinary-teams) [The Role of Leaders in Driving Innovation and Change July, 3 2024](https://blog.unleashresults.com/the-role-of-leaders-in-driving-innovation-and-change) [The Best Leadership Conferences in 2026 | Results January, 1 2026](https://blog.unleashresults.com/top-leadership-conferences) [Why Do Family Businesses Fail? 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